690 Enduro Forum

Technical => Oil & Filters => Topic started by: Rusty Shovel on February 19, 2014, 01:52:23 pm


Title: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Rusty Shovel on February 19, 2014, 01:52:23 pm
Sometimes it seems that just because we bought a premium-level bike, KTM keeps expecting us to pay premium-level prices for everything that goes into it.  Take, for instance, Motorex :

(http://static.chaparral-racing.com/productimages/600/275-980140.jpg)

The cheapest I can find it is $63.99 + $8 shipping = $71.99 (4 liters) http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product/motorex-cross-power-4t-oil-10w60/275-980135.aspx?catargetid=1808323781&cadevice=%7Bdevice%7D&gclid=CJX0obv52LwCFXNo7Aod9U0AQA&gclid=CJX0obv52LwCFXNo7Aod9U0AQA&jadid=6108136680&jap=%7Badposition%7D&jkId=gpt:pt_115707&js=1&jsid=36240&jt=1&jr=http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product/motorex-cross-power-4t-oil-10w60/275-980135.aspx%3Fcatargetid%3D1808323781%26cadevice%3D%7Bdevice%7D&gclid=CJX0obv52LwCFXNo7Aod9U0AQA (http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product/motorex-cross-power-4t-oil-10w60/275-980135.aspx?catargetid=1808323781&cadevice=%7Bdevice%7D&gclid=CJX0obv52LwCFXNo7Aod9U0AQA&gclid=CJX0obv52LwCFXNo7Aod9U0AQA&jadid=6108136680&jap=%7Badposition%7D&jkId=gpt:pt_115707&js=1&jsid=36240&jt=1&jr=http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product/motorex-cross-power-4t-oil-10w60/275-980135.aspx%3Fcatargetid%3D1808323781%26cadevice%3D%7Bdevice%7D&gclid=CJX0obv52LwCFXNo7Aod9U0AQA)

But what about Motul 10w60?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61JQU8BXOIL._SL1500_.jpg)

It appears to be the same thing, but it's $47.53 + $0 shipping = $47.53  http://www.amazon.com/Motul-7100-Synthetic-Ester-Motor/dp/B002LGMARM/ref=sr_1_6?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1392838633&sr=1-6&keywords=10w60 (http://www.amazon.com/Motul-7100-Synthetic-Ester-Motor/dp/B002LGMARM/ref=sr_1_6?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1392838633&sr=1-6&keywords=10w60)

I still think oil should be cheaper, but there's no way I'm spending $22 more just to stay with the brand printed on my engine!  I googled "ester technology" and learned this: 

Motul was the first lubricant manufacturer to use the ester technology for the formulation of its 100% synthetic car oils by capitalizing on an innovation first invented for the aviation industry.[citation needed] The vegetable-based esters benefit from lubricating properties, anti-shear quality and exceptional resistance to high temperatures.

So not only is Motul cheaper, is uses the same process to create it's oils as Motorex; I'm sold.
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: seabeegt on February 26, 2014, 11:40:57 am
I think so too. My buddy ran Motul in his high performance Honda MX bikes. Those things live on the rev meter. His engines never gave him problems. So as far as brand is concerned, ya, im switching over as well. Im running Motorex 10-50 right now while its cold. Gonna get the 10w-60 for the summer.  :P
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Dogfarm on February 26, 2014, 04:43:32 pm
I am running Motorex 10W60 which cost about $16/liter at Rockymountainatv. I didn't seem terrible given it is synthetic and 3,000 mile oil change intervals. I chatted with one of the KTM reps in their booth at the Cleveland International Motorcycle Show. He told me that he always use Rotella in his personal bikes (KTMS) and hasn't had any problems at all. I bought my bike used and that is what the PO used also. I might switch over to Rotellla once I use up my Motorex stock.
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Alabama Adventurer on February 27, 2014, 10:30:11 pm
I've had the same thoughts.  I've been running Rotellla in my 525 EXC (which has much more frequent oil changes) with no problems at all, and you can get it at Walmart.
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: seabeegt on March 12, 2014, 02:27:24 pm
I don't know... dropping from Motorex to Motul is one ****. .. but going from Motorex to Rotella, ya.... about that  :P.  I used Rotella in my 2 bangers, but I ain't putting that in my 690. I luv her too much to roll the dice like that.
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Alabama Adventurer on March 30, 2014, 07:31:54 pm
The 'Motorex' sticker on the side of my case is starring at me  8); I might just have to get it - at least for a new bike...
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Rusty Shovel on March 31, 2014, 12:18:06 am
My Motorex sticker was torn off in a crash.  My new clutch case didn't come with a sticker; I take that as permission to switch to Motul! ;D
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: seabeegt on April 06, 2014, 09:29:22 am
So I ended up grabbing two liters of 60w for $40. Mostly outta convenience. I wanna do my valve check n' oil change now, not in another week. Couldn't find any Motul 60w here in town. Hampton Roads area sucks for bike shops. We got a Cycle Gear and a Honda shop... nearest KTM dealer is 200mi away in NC!  :P
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Rusty Shovel on April 06, 2014, 07:01:06 pm
Couldn't find any Motul 60w here in town. Hampton Roads area sucks for bike shops.

I caught my KTM dealer using 10w50 on my last oil change.  They said it's all they used--primarily out of convenience.  I'm surprised a KTM dealer would take it upon themselves to disregard the manual.
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: seabeegt on April 08, 2014, 10:07:52 am
Yup, no surprise there   >:( and that's why my bike will never see a shop unless I exhaust all other options.
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: mcrider on April 20, 2014, 07:42:32 am
I've been using Royal PurpleŽ - High Performance Motor Oil. I've used it in all my bike since I put it in my 1995 KTM 400 LC4 RXC. It is great oil & O'Reilly Auto Parts for $9.79/qt.
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: seabeegt on April 20, 2014, 09:37:24 pm
$20 per qt... could care less. My pig deserves the best. :P

(http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af64/seabeegt/Bike%20stuff/20140420_140644_zps5zwdxxe7.jpg) (http://s994.photobucket.com/user/seabeegt/media/Bike%20stuff/20140420_140644_zps5zwdxxe7.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: dirtjack on May 18, 2014, 09:22:29 am
Saw recently that BelRay was new "Official" oil of Husky.  So now, ...
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Guymcfly on June 21, 2014, 02:01:52 am
My thoughts on this....

I'm married to an engineer who works in the oil industry so I get to mix with people in the industry. I spoke to an oil specific chemist at a work function...he had a PhD in his field so he really knew his stuff.

The big deal he pointed me toward was just to change the oil more frequently than is specified. Don't get a crap $10 for 40 litres of something that had previously been used to cook up French fries, but the specified brand in the manual is there because that company paid to have its brand included as the factory recommendation.

He mentioned Shell oil was once the whizz bang go to spec stuff for ktm...and then 1 year another brand got the rec, even tho the motor hadn't changed, nor had the oil formula. Why? $$$$ that's why. Shell had apparently told them that the product could stand on its own reputation.

I went with a good quality ester oil. Many $$ cheaper, and it's a 15/50 synthetic. It's a pretty warm climate here so I don't need anything on the lower scale.

I should say I have had numerous Ktms, both 2 and 4 stroke. I've never used the oil ktm recommended, just a good quality, but much cheaper brand.
I ride my bikes hard in tough desert condition in temps well in excess of 100 degrees for much of the time.
I have never blown a motor...although I frequently boiled them.
I ran the exc's well over 30 000 kilometres before rebuilds.

Just my philosophy....I always say, " I buy my bikes to ride, not to pose on". So they don't get much love I'm afraid!
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Alabama Adventurer on June 21, 2014, 07:31:23 pm
That was how it worked with cars.  More frequent oil changes was always better than "the best money can buy".
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: GSP on June 22, 2014, 04:54:15 pm
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XSI3eWeEL._SY300_.jpg)
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Guymcfly on June 22, 2014, 08:47:10 pm
I should also have mentioned the Chemist I had the discussion with is an avid bike and car enthusiast. He has had a ktm 950 for many years and done some hard kilometres on it and also rides an HD softail for the street. Neither bike had ever had the brand specified oil and both bikes are pretty long in the tooth and still going strong.

His rule of thumb was always to change no later than 75% of the rec distance/hours. If your concerned, rich, anal or enjoy doing a service, or have maybe raced Baja or been in very dusty conditions, do it at 50%.

That's pretty much what a lot of riders do I gather. Like it's said, "an oil change is pretty cheap, a motor change isn't".

Cheers to all and happy riding.
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: seabeegt on June 28, 2014, 04:58:43 pm
Yup. Motor rebuilds ain't cheap. So if you're into being "cheap", you'll more than likely get whats coming to ya. I ended up buying some Motul 10w60 instead of the Motorex. Saved like $20 but don't believe I'm comprimising quality. I as well believe $$$=marketing strategies. So, I think I'll go with Motul from now on and change every 3K on the spot.  :P
(http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af64/seabeegt/Bike%20stuff/motul10w60_zps0af73bdb.jpg) (http://s994.photobucket.com/user/seabeegt/media/Bike%20stuff/motul10w60_zps0af73bdb.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Rockitboy on December 08, 2014, 03:56:19 am
Motorex 10w50 is listed in the manual as an alternative engine oil for the 690 and is about $15 cheaper than 10w60 per 4 liters. Its used in cooler climates and is recommended by KTM. While the bike is under warranty I will use Motorex so if there were to be an engine issue KTM cant use the oil as an excuse.. After warranty I plan on running Rotella. Thats good oil you guys & tons of people use it in their bikes. Its made for diesels & has very little moly in it. (Moly is suppose to be bad for your wet clutch) Get a gallon for about $21.74 at Walmart. Whatever oil you use, change it at about 2500 miles & keep it topped off in between and you will have a happy engine.
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Philip Pino on December 08, 2014, 06:03:33 am
I used Rotella in my 625 smc with no problems.  In my '09 690 Duke I used Spectro 10/50 semi-synthetic with no problems and Motul in my two-strokes.  As stated before... stay on top of your oil changes and you shouldn't have any problems.  I spoke with a race bike engine builder at one of my local shops and he preferred semi-synthetics to full synthetics.  He demonstrated that you can feel the difference in lubricity, is that a word, when you rub it between your fingers.  The semi did feel slicker than the full synthetic.  He said to change the oil a little more often.  Also, he said to stay away from Royal Purple.  He said every race engine he built which used Royal Purple, didn't last long.  Once he stopped using Royal Purple, the engines ran better and lasted longer.  That was five years ago.  Maybe Royal Purple has gotten better.  I don't know, never used the stuff.  I'll have to try the Motul ester based, or go back to Rotella if they make a 10/50.  Lately, all I've seen is 10/40 or 20/40.
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: mcrider on December 08, 2014, 10:31:23 am
I've used Royal Purple since 1995 in five different bikes. The first was a 400 LC3 RXC; had to idle it down.  Zero problems on all.  When I did a top end on my 520 EXC after over 250 race hours, the piston still looked good.  I also use it in my Ranger.

Very good oil!
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: RiverRunner on January 04, 2015, 11:33:27 am
For years, many of the guys over at CafeHusky have been using Mobile 1, based on the recommendation of guys from ZipTy Racing.  ZT is recommending the 0-40, even for my wife's 310 where the manual calls for 15-50. 

I've not heard anyone complain or post an oil related problem where they are using the Mobile 1 0-40.  I'm using it in both my 511 and her 310.  The 0-40 is called the European Auto formula or something like that.  I buy it at Walmart for about $23 for a five quart jug.  There have been no clutch issues whatsoever - NONE.  Our gearboxes / clutches are smooth as silk and very easy to feather.

ZT also recommends a stainless steel mesh oil filter as it filters better than paper and flows more oil with less restriction.

Consequently, I'm not a believer in $20 a quart oil - I'll use 0-40 or 10-50 Mobile 1 in my/our new 690's at the first oil change.

Good luck.  Be Brave!
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Philip Pino on January 06, 2015, 05:31:07 pm
Other brands that now have 10-60 oil are Maxima and Bel-Ray.

http://www.belray.com/bel-ray-works-thumper-racing-synthetic-ester-4t-engine-oil

http://www.maximausa.com/product/extra4/
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Mcridr on January 06, 2015, 10:29:34 pm
 The other issue is the availability of the brand you wish to use.  So it is nice to see more choices are out there to pick from. Here is another one to consider.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/motorcycle/synthetic-sae-10w-60-dirt-bike-oil/?code=DB60QT-EA
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Philip Pino on January 07, 2015, 01:00:10 pm
I was looking around the net to find a dealer for the Ams Oil 10-60, rather than buy directly. Since it's a new oil, nobody has it yet. But I came across this site which shows you how to get Ams Oil at a dealer price. Might be worth it if you are buying for all of your vehicles.
http://www.thebestoil.com/WholesaleorRetail/
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: truck11 on January 07, 2015, 03:37:43 pm
good little find on Amsoil!
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Mcridr on January 07, 2015, 08:20:29 pm
The 10-60 is available from Amsoil. I just ordered some for my 690 and 800XC. I have used their oils off an on for years without any problems or surprises. Any oil that is close to the manufactures recommendation should be fine as long as it has the JASO MA/MA2 designation on the container.
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: RiverRunner on May 13, 2015, 10:18:20 pm
Hi Folks:

Over on the Cafe Husky forum, there was a pretty detailed discussion of oil and what kind of oil is actually best for a bike.  It takes some time to read through this string of pages, but I know a heck of a lot more about oil than I did before.  I've changed oil to Mobile 1 0-40 in our Huskies and now the brand new KTM's - have also changed to Stainless Steel oil filters.  I know KTM recommends a 10-60 premium brand, but based on what I learned from this thread, a 10 weight is most likely too thick for start up - too much wear- and the 60 doesn't really do you any good at operating temperatures - having thinner oil at the same pressure means you are pumping a a greater volume and volume is what provides protection to moving parts and carries away heat.

Pretty interesting stuff for sure.  Mobile 1 0-40 is about $25 for a 5 QT jug at Walmart.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/what-kind-of-oil-should-i-use-and-how-much.31911/ (http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/what-kind-of-oil-should-i-use-and-how-much.31911/)
Title: Re: 10w60 Oil Alternatives
Post by: Drblackbird on May 18, 2015, 12:09:04 pm
oil threads are so GAY...............But the above article is a good read....Thanks for posting