690 Enduro Forum
Technical => Sweet Mods and Accessories => Topic started by: Guymcfly on August 02, 2014, 08:29:27 pm
-
Tubliss tire system.
This is 1 of the best mods I've made. It's reliable ( I have given the bike **** over some shocking terrain) for over a year. I've had zero problems. The bike handles IMHO, noticeably better. Corners, trax, etc.
For an explanation of why, see here.
http://damon-ianson.hubpages.com/hub/Know-This-Motorcycles-Unsprung-weight-and-gyroscopic-mass
-
I've been considering this set up, but Tubliss says "for offroad use only". Have you used yours on road? At speed?
Thanks!
-
Yes I have, about as fast as the bike will go, but I don't use it for long slab rides. I only use the bike as a big enduro machine - 95%dirt - not dressed up for adv riding as many ppl do. I only ever run full knobbies on it not dual sport rubber.
To date I've gone thru a few rear tires since I started using the tubliss...no flats, problems at all. I'd swear I can notice the weight difference in the way the bike handles. As far as I know, none of the alternatives to tubes are for road use? Could be wrong so let me know if I am!
-
I was told by a KTM dealer that the Tubliss might not work with the stock rear wheel because of its width. Tubeless list their 18" unit for rims which are 1.85" ~ 2.15". 21" unit is for rims 1.65". KTM shows stock rims to be 18" x2.50" and 21" x 1.85". Are you running stock rims? I'm looking to try these with Heidenau K60 Scout 50/50 tires or Mitas MT 07 Dakar 50/50 tires. If you can beat them up off roading and on the street, they should hold up for a long adv ride or commuting on the street. Also what tire pressure are you running when on the street?
Thanks
-
I got a reply from Tubliss yesterday. They said their current offerings won't work for the stock wheels on the 690 enduro. But they are working on systems for the bigger/wider rims. They expect to have them available sometime next year.
-
I got a flat last year when I aired down for a trail ride & spun the stem off after getting stuck in the mud. So thats what has me looking into a bead lock. I've been looking at Motion Pro lit Loc's or the Tubliss system.
-
As hard as a tire change is stock with trail side tools I'd be inclined to go tubliss. I put a rim lock on my KLR. It made tire changes more difficult but doable.
In my opinion the 690 would be no fun in the wild with a rim lock. I suppose if you were just pulling a tube patch and replace you might be ok.
Just a thought.
-
Front has been in for over a year and still going strong.
-
The Motion Pro Lit locks are too narrow for our fatty rims! :-( I ended up with their regular rimlocks and about 14lbs of wheels weights :-) ok, maybe not that much, but seemed close!
And for those wheel weights, I cannot praise these enough http://r.ebay.com/CXNk5x Pricey, but worth it. Reusable!
(http://i.ebayimg.com/04/!Bw4F3tQ!2k~$(KGrHqN,!hcEv1+0E4O9BMK-YNhuI!~~_1.JPG)
-
Check out No-Mar for your wheel weights. much cheaper for the same thing. I've used them for quit awhile now and love them. http://www.nomartirechanger.com/category_s/45.htm
-
I got a reply from Tubliss yesterday. They said their current offerings won't work for the stock wheels on the 690 enduro. But they are working on systems for the bigger/wider rims. They expect to have them available sometime next year.
Funny they say that. I use stock rims and flog the bike something awful. Tubliss have held up just fine. I'll change the front tire very soon to check for wear and tear in it but I used to crack rims all the time, and after 3 flats in 1 week I decided to try tubliss.
I know of a few guys running on the stock rear rim who also use the system with no hassles.
-
...and after 3 flats in 1 week I decided to try tubliss.
Wow. You either like to race around construction sites or you really race your 690 like a borrowed horse. :o What kind of flats were you getting? Pinch flats, blowouts, or punctures?
-
Pinch. Lots of rocks around here. I also **** 2 rims in 1 week. It was after that I stopped running my tires at 14 psi. They now sit just shy of 20 psi. No flats or dinged rims anymore. I also think the bike rides far better because the tires don't roll sideways on the rims which can happen with the bigger bikes.
And yeah, I do like to give it some off road ;D
-
Guymcfly, so just so I'm clear, you're running 20psi with the Tubliss system as well? When my tires wear out, I'm going to switch to Tubliss and have read people running from 3-10psi, but not as high as 20psi with the system. Seems to make sense, just checking. Thanks.
-
Yes, the tubliss system needs to be kept at 100-110psi to keep the tire seated in the bead. The tire itself (you use a 2nd valve for this) can be run way down, at 3 psi if you want.
Because of the many large and small rocks I get to deal with, I keep my tires inflated to around 20 psi.
I've also mentioned using the bigger bikes (anything over 125kg, the weight of a fully loaded exc with long range gas tank), and I've always noticed that tires start to roll sideways on the rims during fast cornering, if the tire pressure is run to low.
It was something I noticed a lot on the 690 when I got it. Basically, theis stops the front tire biting properly and makes for a skating effect which a lot of people feel is the bike pushing into a corner. It's really not that; although to much rear sag does cause pushing...it's more to do with a lot of the tread of the tire failing to be the contact patch with the ground as its pushed well off to the wrong side of the rim. You then get a lot more sidewall making contact with the ground than you should have, so your very effectively running a semi slick tire.
I was a little reticent about voicing this until I read the 2010 690r review by Chilly White. He mentioned exactly the same thing, and the vast change in handling when he inflated the tires more than usual, so I feel a lot better about saying it.
Btw, his review is well worth reading.
-
Chilly's site Enduro 360 http://www.enduro360.com/ (http://www.enduro360.com/) is one of my regular stops just after this one. I've known him, his wife & parents for many years thru the ISDE events.
Here are several test reports.
2010 Adventure Bike Comparison
http://www.enduro360.com/2010/07/25/featured/2010-adventure-bike-comparison-4/ (http://www.enduro360.com/2010/07/25/featured/2010-adventure-bike-comparison-4/)
Be sure to go to page 2 & 3!
2012 KTM 690 Enduro R Review
http://www.enduro360.com/2012/11/10/products-tested/2012-ktm-690-enduro-r-review/ (http://www.enduro360.com/2012/11/10/products-tested/2012-ktm-690-enduro-r-review/)
2014 KTM 690 Enduro R Review
http://www.enduro360.com/2014/07/10/products-tested/2014-ktm-690-enduro-r-review/ (http://www.enduro360.com/2014/07/10/products-tested/2014-ktm-690-enduro-r-review/)
-
Thanks Guymcfly. I've been doing a lot of thinking on if I want to try these and I think you've sold me. I'm doing the Utah back country discovery in September and think these would be nice for that. I think I'll still carry a set of tubes with me just in case though.
-
I'm doing the Utah back country discovery in September and think these would be nice for that.
**Not a thread hijack** ;D
I've heard the Utah Backroads Discovery ride is awesome. You may want to reach out to DrBlackbird (Gary) about it. He ran that on his 690 last summer.
-
Thanks Guymcfly. I've been doing a lot of thinking on if I want to try these and I think you've sold me. I'm doing the Utah back country discovery in September and think these would be nice for that. I think I'll still carry a set of tubes with me just in case though.
Hey no worries, glad I could help. Only thing to say is to follow the instructions for fitting. They have some great videos to watch for this. Most failures I heard of were due to incorrect fitting.
-
just had the dealership put my new tubliss and new rear tire on. I wanted to watch someone with experience put it on so I knew what I was in for next time. It didn’t look bad, lots of tire lube is the key. [imghttp://(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7664/17081531090_32bf2e412c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/s2rj5J)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/s2rj5J) by johnandnorasuter (https://www.flickr.com/people/128637489@N04/), on Flickr[/img]
-
I forgot to say that they also recommend using Slime in them too.
-
I totally support your actions on going with the Tubliss. I mean, if its trouble free and it allows you to do a tire repair/plug as opposed to the removal/replacement of the tube, why the hell not!? I think the difference between those two scenarios when managing a flat is night and day. I have not yet gone for it but I am certainly interested in doing the system. Please voice the good and bad from going Tubliss. Ride On!
-
Have any of you guys with the Tubliss conversion done any long freeway miles with them?
-
Funny you should ask. I just did 325 miles Sunday with no issues. I will have another ride this weekend that will finish off this tire. I am planning on cutting a hole in the tire so I can see how the beed lock works on our wider tires. I've been afraid to go less than 18psi.
-
I did a ride on the July 4th weekend from SoCal to Moab, UT on the tubliss system. No problems. I did air down for the off road sections. Because of the weight of my luggage I didn't go below 20psi on the front and 25psi on the rear. I think I should have stayed at about 22psi on the front because of the extra weight. I could feel the tire bottoming out on large rocks and bumps under braking.
I found an old thread, on Advrider, talking about guys doing a lot of long highway miles with no problems, so I just did it. Make sure you balance your tire if you are going to do a lot of street riding. Also I tried the "Ride-on" tire sealer/balancer product. I don't recommend it with the Tubliss if you do a lot of street riding. I had to use a lot more of the stuff than Ride-on's chart recommendation and more than their "extreme" recommendation. The tires never really balanced out and when I slowed to a stop on the street, I could occasionally feel the tires go out of balance and it took several miles of riding before the tires sort of balanced out again.
-
So has anyone had problems with front and rear tubliss using stock 690 enduro rims? Anyone heard of issues?
This just sounds like a logical system versus tubes, specifically on a tire like the Dunlop 606 or 908RR with super stiff sidewalls - I don't want to Replace and Repair those buggers ever again.
I called Tubliss and they really recommended not using their system on our bikes. Very nice people - the kind of folks you want to give your business.
-
It works just fine. I used a grease for installing the moose inserts on the both parts of the tubliss to seat and seal it instead of the soapy water technique they show in their videos. I did this because I balance my wheels for street use. If there is too much liquid sloshing around in your tire, you won't be able to balance it. If you are running off road you can add tire slime or ride-on sealer to create a run-flat tire. Also, adding the ride-on or slime to the high pressure inner tube can slow down its pressure loss that occurs over time.
All in all, the system works on the 690 rims.
-
I haven't been riding much since April when I put this in. I finally wore the tire out. I am a curious kind a fella so I decider to cut a hole in the tire to see how well the system works on the wider 690 tires. I have to say it works just like advertised for the smaller dirt bike tires. I took a pic but can't get it to post on my phone. I'll get it posted up tomorrow.
-
[IMG.]http://(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5676/20866130961_63fface59b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xMSnLD)Tubeless (https://flic.kr/p/xMSnLD) by John Suter (https://www.flickr.com/photos/128637489@N04/), on Flickr[IMG]
-
You should send the picture to the folks at Tubliss to show them they can add another bike to the list. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
-
I think the biggest reason they won't recommend it is because they don't want the liability of street use. Can't say I blame them.
-
Or, will the insurance cover an accident if it's found out you have tubliss versus what is standard? Even if it's not the tires fault..?
-
I very much like the concept of the tubliss system with stiff tires like a Dunlop 606 or 908. I fear the day I have to change the tube in a 606 on a cold, wet day - when that tire is frozen stiff and friggin' fights back......but I want to know what the risks are before I put my wife on this system and her 690.
Does anyone know why the Tubliss folks don't want people using their product with wider inner wheel widths? Has to be the wider flat section the spokes lace into that is causing their problems.
What do they believe is the danger?? What happens between or in the wheel-tire-tubliss interface that could be dangerous? I don't know tires enough to even know what I don't know. Any tire guru's out here?
I'm sorry to ask this same question in several different posts in this thread - but while it seems to work for some guys with moderate miles under their belt - why are these guys at Tubliss turning down cash and not selling the system to us with their blessing? There has got to be something that scares them from a liability standpoint.
-
I thought it was time to hear the story straight from the horses mouth, so I sent a message to Tubliss.
I suggested they post a response here, but also offered to post it for them.
I'll keep you guys up to date.
-
I think the biggest reason they won't recommend it is because they don't want the liability of street use. Can't say I blame them.
What happens when used on the road? What fails in the system?
-
Just speculation, but there may be a DOT certification which has to be done to certify the system for public highway use.
-
So what happens if you do get a flat with this system?
Does the small 100 psi inner tube hold the tire bead solidly on the rim all by itself? Or, does a guy have to worry about getting the bead re-seated with high pressure air like you do on a tubeless car tire - I've never had a tubliss or tubeless bike tire that I worked on so I just don't understand how it works. I've plugged a tubeless car tire, but always had high pressure air to reseat the bead. Is it just a matter of plugging a hole if needed and pumping her back up to a low pressure level and go?
-
The inner, hi-pressure tube acts like a 360* rim lock, in addition to the rim lock of the system, holding the tire bead to the rim. Hi-pressure air to seat the bead may not be necessary as long as the inner, hi-pressure tube is inflated first. The hi-pressure tube should prevent the bead from coming unseated when running really low tire pressures.
Plugging a hole in the tire still mounted on the rim is the pretty much the same as plugging a hole in a car tire still mounted on the rim. The only difference is when you insert the plug into the tire, you should insert it at angle to avoid puncturing the inner tube. As long as the hi-pressure tube is still inflated, the bead should stay seated.
-
At this time, we agree that posting details on your website is a very interesting topic today.